Curse

Way2dead · Jun 13, 2011, 06:31 AM // 06:31

There are a lot of terrible players in RA, when they get attacked and can't cast at that moment they just stand still, without having a shield set at all, can't kill anything at all leaving you up with the whole match the same amount of pressure since all players are still there (i've got it a lot of times, long matches no monk on enemy team, takes around 10 mins to kill anything because ele is using flare on his earth build) and then calling you a noob/bad monk

In other words, it's mostly not your fault, you also have like said a bad team composition.

superraptors · Jun 13, 2011, 01:15 PM // 13:15

powercreep is much stronger then it was years ago, so its much harder to monk, combined with ad1 pvers you probably won't get past 10 consecs on 90% of the situations.

Sun Fired Blank · Jun 15, 2011, 12:27 AM // 00:27

Quote:

I'm one of those people who swears by Guardian. The thing people forget about this spell is that it not only helps prevent damage, it helps prevent utility and shutdown via KD/interrupts from reaching key members of your team. If that ranger is camping your mesmer or ele, just pop a Guardian. Hammer warrior linebacking your warrior? Pop a guardian. Anything you cast Guardian (effectively) on almost instantly has greater output. I guess it's just second nature to me since I really only ever use a prot monk, but I feel naked without Guardian on my bar.

In Arenas, I think Guardian is essentially a targeted RNG solution for bad Warriors (particularly hammer). It has no use against any of the caster templates (E-Surge, Invoke, Mind Blast, etc.) being run these days which are more problematic than most physical templates. It's not useful versus most rangers as it doesn't stop Magebane Shot and it can also be disabled by the ranger in question. It isn't very useful versus most burst sins (particularly Wastrel's Collapse), it obviously doesn't stop unblockable skills, and it has a very low deflection rate on utility-effect dual attacks. Dervishes have a number of ways to remove or compromise it, and it does nothing versus teardown effects which are a sizable component of their pressure.

I think Guardian is weak in Arenas, and I haven't used it seriously from late-2009 onwards. You are welcome to use it anyways.

Quote:

So after all that Sun Fired Blank, can I ask what is the build you use?

I ran this yesterday for back-to-back 25-consecutive streaks respectively ending at 0:20 AM EST, 2:08 AM EST, and 3:50 AM EST. I didn't have quite as much fortune today, but I still achieved a 20-consecutive streak and several 10-consecutive streaks.

- Word of Healing
- Patient Spirit
- Vigorous Spirit
- Shield of Absorption
- Cure Hex
- Holy Veil
- Shielding Hands
- Bonetti's Defense

One final note: Strong players in RA tend to win despite having mediocre players on their team. I'm not saying that bad players won't make them lose matches. I'm saying that in many cases, they can lift bad players on their back and win anyways. You're doing something wrong if you're not doing this.

If you know that you're not bad, then your team only has three potential idiots versus the other team's four potential idiots, and in many cases, you just have to outperform whoever is in your position on the other team.

I Am Not Ok · Jun 15, 2011, 08:45 AM // 08:45

how in hell did u get so much wins with no cond removal?
either u got lucky and allways get necro with ff, or didnt face any blind blindbots, cos u will lose to any haevy cond team, or team with decent air ele

and i agree, guardian is useless in RA, rather take 2 stances or shielding hands/shield of absorption

Fate Crusher · Jun 15, 2011, 11:03 AM // 11:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Am Not Ok

how in hell did u get so much wins with no cond removal?
either u got lucky and allways get necro with ff, or didnt face any blind blindbots, cos u will lose to any haevy cond team, or team with decent air ele

and i agree, guardian is useless in RA, rather take 2 stances or shielding hands/shield of absorption

Agreed, in all those matches you didn't face a single blinder?

Also, if you're running SoA/SH, you might as well go for Zealous Benediction and benefit from the prots more. However, i'm not recommending it because there are still too many e-surge idiots around that ZB's energy cost is too high.

I'm sorry but i swear by Guardian and I don't think i'll ever take it out of my bar. For me, it's as necessary as Vigorous spirit. Maybe because i've been playing with it for so long, i've maximised efficiency, but i like it's utility to also guardian your mesmer or other caster to prot him from rangers. Like everyone's saying, in order to win games you MUST keep your frontline clean. This in turn pressures the other team by allowing us to be more offensive.

Also, the moment a team knows you don't have guardian, they will lineback and attack everyone but the monk until you run out of energy. SoA and SH could work, but not many people run so many prots without condition removal. Pressuring a stance monk like that will also force him to spam and make him easy target for mesmers and rangers.

Tyris Requiem · Jun 15, 2011, 12:40 PM // 12:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fate Crusher

Also, the moment a team knows you don't have guardian, they will lineback and attack everyone but the monk until you run out of energy.

Pretty much... its a very viable tactic to just find the 60 armour retard who doesn't use a shield or kite and pump the shit out of him until the monk runs dry on energy.

And on to the guardian discussion... The problem with guardian is the ammount of damage it prevents doesn't usually equate to the heal from 1 cast of WoH or patient so it will drain on the energy. Guardian is a bit of a toss up really, in some situations its invaluable and in others its not really that useful, it just depends on your team mates and the other team.

As far as condi removals go having a draw on the monk really helps. You cant expect your melees to output pressure when they are getting spammed out by blind or weakness. Plus draw can be used to tank condis with disciples insignias.

urania · Jun 15, 2011, 02:43 PM // 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Fired Blank

- Word of Healing
- Patient Spirit
- Vigorous Spirit
- Shield of Absorption
- Cure Hex
- Holy Veil
- Shielding Hands
- Bonetti's Defense

(good) hammer warrs/earth eles/well timed meteors/wastrels collapse sins (or any type of kd spamming sin bar, be it with hammer bash, dev hammer and whatnot)) must have a field day with that bar. not because itd kill you, but because camping the ground all the time might leave one of your team mates dead before you get up. if you go along with carrying all the baddies in there, that is.

superraptors · Jun 16, 2011, 04:27 AM // 04:27

power creep these days is just button mashing and a good monk can still easily get rolled over 1 simple mistake, much more challenging but quite demotivating sometimes especially when you get a team composed of downers.

thing with a monk bar you have to try compact as many skills as you can into it, i just don't see guardian being necessary, theres atleast 2 casters in each team, being mesmers or eles or necros. id easily take vig spirit or an extra hex removal.

condition removal id only ever run is draw conditions or pnh simple because removing 1 condition at a time is a joke and energy vampire in this meta.

people in the team need to understand monks cant do everything aswell, if people had a brain they would bring the runes or self condition removal, i can guarantee they will win more games instead of letting the monk trying to keep everyone clean while trying to keep the bars up.

if you have someone standing still tanking damage the chance are you won't get far anyways so you should quit while your ahead. and in most cases its 90% of the time in ra.

usually running pnh cure vig signet patient dwaynas dolyak bonettis these days

sometimes like running breeze with a combination of divine spirit sometimes

yum · Jun 16, 2011, 05:35 AM // 05:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Am Not Ok

how in hell did u get so much wins with no cond removal?
either u got lucky and allways get necro with ff, or didnt face any blind blindbots, cos u will lose to any haevy cond team, or team with decent air ele

and i agree, guardian is useless in RA, rather take 2 stances or shielding hands/shield of absorption

Guardian can heal for 150+ which is good enough for me.

Master Ketsu · Jun 17, 2011, 06:54 AM // 06:54

For the record, recently when I RA I use concussion shot on eles and watch monks draw it onto themselves. Great fun.

don't be one of those monks.

greep · Jun 17, 2011, 08:39 AM // 08:39

Well cond removal is pretty exclusively used on melees in RA for blind, not enough time or energy for other cond removal. Now if you dazed a melee.. that'd be pretty inefficient, but utterly hilarious when the monk inevitably draws it.

urania · Jun 17, 2011, 11:08 AM // 11:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

For the record, recently when I RA I use concussion shot on eles and watch monks draw it onto themselves. Great fun.

don't be one of those monks.

I usually do it on my mel resilience boon - doesn't really hurt me, unless you manage to communicate to your team that everyone should wand/attack me then. Hasn't happened yet, really. And even then I have my good old sig of devo.

kedde · Jun 17, 2011, 02:25 PM // 14:25

How about, monk player looks at his screen and sees the condition is neither blind nor weakness on the warrior, he doesn't draw. But perhaps that's too much to ask.

greep · Jun 17, 2011, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Right that's why it'd be really innefficient. The only way it'd work is if you did something stupid like blinding flash immediately followed by stunning strike, in which case it'd just be better to daze directly.

Edit: Durr, temple strike. Braindead. Still inefficient, though.

Mesmers Are Bad · Jun 17, 2011, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by kedde

How about, monk player looks at his screen and sees the condition is neither blind nor weakness on the warrior, he doesn't draw. But perhaps that's too much to ask.

What if they're covered by bleeding or deep wound? It's not THAT simple.

Xenomortis · Jun 17, 2011, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesmers Are Bad

What if they're covered by bleeding or deep wound? It's not THAT simple.

Then you draw. The point is you don't bother with draw unless you see Weakness, Blind or Cripple; all of which are easily determined by looking at the player (well, Cracked Armour is identical to Weakness).

AndroBubbles · Jun 17, 2011, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyris Requiem

Pretty much... its a very viable tactic to just find the 60 armour retard who doesn't use a shield or kite and pump the shit out of him until the monk runs dry on energy.

And on to the guardian discussion... The problem with guardian is the ammount of damage it prevents doesn't usually equate to the heal from 1 cast of WoH or patient so it will drain on the energy. Guardian is a bit of a toss up really, in some situations its invaluable and in others its not really that useful, it just depends on your team mates and the other team.

As far as condi removals go having a draw on the monk really helps. You cant expect your melees to output pressure when they are getting spammed out by blind or weakness. Plus draw can be used to tank condis with disciples insignias.

Guardian can easily match the healing output from Patient when used correctly, and if you're talking about WoH, Guardian is great for keeping your team from getting to the point where they need it in the first place.

@ Sun: Is your bar honestly that compromised by putting in guardian that you cannot efficiently do your job? Most of your original post was boasting about the strength of pre-Patient/WoH combinations, saying nothing about prots, but then you insert SoA? How easy is it for any decent player to see that animation and switch targets? Not to mention that spell has a horrid recharge in comparison to Guardian, making it even weaker against strong players, especially melee characters. SoA is also considerably weaker as a PRE-prot. You are punished both for your lower investment and using it even a moment before damage starts coming in, since it doesn't actually have any effect until the target starts getting hit. I'm sorry, but I'm not really buying this.

tegororn · Jun 17, 2011, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by mathiastemplar

I doubt you are bad...

Since the update, a lot of pve'ers have come to RA. This means lots of people with 400-500hp, who overextend like crazy..

thats exactly true

superraptors · Jun 18, 2011, 04:04 AM // 04:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndroBubbles

Guardian can easily match the healing output from Patient when used correctly, and if you're talking about WoH, Guardian is great for keeping your team from getting to the point where they need it in the first place.

@ Sun: Is your bar honestly that compromised by putting in guardian that you cannot efficiently do your job? Most of your original post was boasting about the strength of pre-Patient/WoH combinations, saying nothing about prots, but then you insert SoA? How easy is it for any decent player to see that animation and switch targets? Not to mention that spell has a horrid recharge in comparison to Guardian, making it even weaker against strong players, especially melee characters. SoA is also considerably weaker as a PRE-prot. You are punished both for your lower investment and using it even a moment before damage starts coming in, since it doesn't actually have any effect until the target starts getting hit. I'm sorry, but I'm not really buying this.

and any stronger player with half a brain will easily see a person has guardian casted on them aswell, then they will just switch targets, so yes guardian is a waste most of the time and pretty sure 50% block isn't too amazing either in this meta.

Lord Natural · Jun 18, 2011, 02:09 PM // 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fate Crusher

Also, the moment a team knows you don't have guardian, they will lineback and attack everyone but the monk until you run out of energy.

This.

Inexperienced melees in RA make the mistake of fixating on a monk who's probably the best kiter on the team and will just throw stances in your face anyway. However once you face even a semi-competent team they'll spot your heal bar and begin raping any casters.

Guardian is crucial if you're facing a decent hammer warrior. You'll burn through half your bar on his first combo without it. SoA makes no sense over guardian. Guardian is a much better combo breaker with a quicker recharge.

But to each their own I guess. There is no perfect monk bar in RA for all situations. It's just a combination of skill, getting lucky enough to score another 1-2 good players, and not facing the wrong team. If you skimp on condition removal, eventually you'll face a blind/dazed team; If you skimp on hex removal, eventually you'll get burned by hexes. That's just how it goes.